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 Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes

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aaronfoster13

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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Sun May 02, 2010 2:13 pm

Knuckleball, are you a pre-law major (or maybe because you're from the west coast like myself) because you have made two god damn almost convincing arguments why we should take your side.
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bryanmurphy9

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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Sun May 02, 2010 3:57 pm

Knuckleball wrote:
I have been informed from the league commissoners that the Spring training defense does not hold water. Therefore, my second defensive argument is all minor leaguers that were obtained via trade do not appear to be subject to the minor league placement rules.

For example, one major leaguer being traded for one minor leaguer or an active major league player in the minors being traded to another team and retaining his minor league status.

I therefore would like the league to exempt these players from being forced into the minors as they were trades predicated on fitting a player under the roster limit, but not necessarily placing them into the minors.

These players would include Lambo, Weglarz, Freeman, Soto, and Beckham.

With the two cuts I have already made my minor league roster size is in compliance, if the league would like to place a hold on further minor league movement until such time I meet full major and minor league complaince, I can accept that given if this error was caught sooner the moves I made over the past year would have been significantly different.

See this is where draft picks or categories should be forfeited. Your roster is against the rules... it doesn't matter when it was caught. The commissioners have spoke, and told you that your roster is against the rules yet you keep trying to makeup bullshit excuses. Look at every single damn trade that is made in this league, if one acquires 2 Minor League Players FOR 1 Major League Player and his Minor League Roster is already at the maximum... then he has to make the appropriate moves directly after the trade to cut 2 Minor League Players. Its that freaking easy Knuckleball, why are you different? Why do you not have to play by the rules? You're stupid excuses are basically just like Sammy Sosa sitting in front of Congress trying to act like he can't speak a bit of english. You knew how trades were made in this league, you've seen what everyone else does. You were simply trying to hoard as much Minor League talent as possible and you got caught... The commishes have spoken, quit dreaming up dumbass excuses, fix your roster and we'll all move on.
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aaronfoster13

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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Sun May 02, 2010 4:04 pm

Speaking of eligibility...Bryan you need to take Dice K off the DL, he pitched in a game yesterday... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Sun May 02, 2010 4:21 pm

Knuckleball wrote:
I have been informed from the league commissoners that the Spring training defense does not hold water. Therefore, my second defensive argument is all minor leaguers that were obtained via trade do not appear to be subject to the minor league placement rules.

I'm not sure where there is a basis for this as an argument. Point out in the rules where it says minor leaguers obtained via trade are exempt from roster eligibility requirements. Or even show an example from another team that has done this and it has been allowed. Short of that - and even just pointing to an example would leave it still open for discussion - it's not allowed.
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bryanmurphy9

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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Sun May 02, 2010 4:26 pm

Honestly, #1 of the Gameplay Rules end this whole discussion Knuckleball...

1. Trade Rules: You are allowed to trade bidding dollars, players, waiver spots, and/or draft picks. Just keep in mind there are roster limits. 25 major league players when season starts and 20 minor league players when season starts.

Currently you have 26 Minor League players... which as we've said all along, it doesn't matter when or how you acquired them.. your roster is illegal.
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Mon May 03, 2010 1:59 am

I would think that at this points in the hands of the Commishes.
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Knuckleball
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Tue May 04, 2010 10:47 pm

To Jeremy's point, just because there is not another example of a major for minor league player being traded does not automatically make it illegal. Currently, there is not a negative declaration clause in our rules that state a major league player exchanged for a minor league player must be kept in the minors during the act. To every act, there must always be someone that conducted it first, without an objection to the act at the time a precedent is set.

To Bryan's point, Gameplay Rule #1 is not a straightforward clause as the 25/20 rule is not upheld in all situations. Half the league does not strictly abide by the 25/20 rule given the exception clauses that allow a manager to retain currently active major leaguers in the minors until they choose to call upon them. Therefore, without a positive or negative declaration stating what I did was legal or illegal, the argument is open to league interpretation.

This is why I am asking the league for an exemption for all prior conduct to this conversation and with rule revisions and clarifications I shall abide by them. It is also why I have no issue with placing a hold on future minor league transactions until which time I come into compliance.

However, I do have issue with YOUR standing that I resolve the issue in two weeks via trades as any and all managers can merely suggest low ball offers or wait out the time frame until I am forced to drop my players. Therefore, I am the only one being punished in the situation while other managers may be rewarded with the ability to acquire my former players when they had ample opportunity to challenge the issue prior to it reaching this stage.
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bryanmurphy9

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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Wed May 05, 2010 12:02 am

Knuckleball wrote:

However, I do have issue with YOUR standing that I resolve the issue in two weeks via trades as any and all managers can merely suggest low ball offers or wait out the time frame until I am forced to drop my players. Therefore, I am the only one being punished in the situation while other managers may be rewarded with the ability to acquire my former players when they had ample opportunity to challenge the issue prior to it reaching this stage.

I thought I was doing you a favor with this idea. No matter how much you want to "bullshit", either way you look at it.. your roster is against the rules. I guess the other option from my idea is that the commishes make you immediately choose 6 players and drop them by tomorrow? Would you like that better? I wouldn't think so.. but whatever.


Luis or any of the other commishes... we need a ruling on this ASAP, a final ruling. Realize you guys are busy and all but no sense in this topic carrying on with Knuckleball's excuses as to why he didn't know what he was doing... and asking for exemptions. If you guys don't want to make a decision, I propose a league vote.
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Wed May 05, 2010 12:12 am

We'll have a decisive ruling shortly. Making sure we play our cards right; As it is MiLB and not MLB it has a lesser stake on the games currently at play, so we're just taking a little time to make sure we have our bases covered and the best overall decision for the league is made
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Wed May 05, 2010 12:23 am

bryanmurphy9 wrote:

I thought I was doing you a favor with this idea. No matter how much you want to "bullshit", either way you look at it.. your roster is against the rules. I guess the other option from my idea is that the commishes make you immediately choose 6 players and drop them by tomorrow? Would you like that better? I wouldn't think so.. but whatever.


Luis or any of the other commishes... we need a ruling on this ASAP, a final ruling. Realize you guys are busy and all but no sense in this topic carrying on with Knuckleball's excuses as to why he didn't know what he was doing... and asking for exemptions. If you guys don't want to make a decision, I propose a league vote.

Why do we need a ruling ASAP? Why not have a well thought out ruling? What's the rush? We get it. You think his roster is illegal. As far as I'm concerned the commishes can take their time making their decision so they can review all the transactions, the rationale and if other rosters were guilty of the same type of action and not punished accordingly. The only one calling for an immediate action and cuts is you. Why can't you just let the commishes take care of instead of looking like a petulant child?
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aaronfoster13

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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Wed May 05, 2010 12:30 am

Bryan, can you stop acting like a frickin cry baby PLEASE....It's not that big of a deal..Those minor league players aren't doing any good on his roster anyhow or will be making an immediate impact on any other rosters either. And when it gets all resolved, you can use what little bidding dollars you have to bid on them. Let the commishes deal with the situation. You brought up the violation, and that should be the end of it.

I think 2 weeks is satisfactory time to get things resolved. I don't blame him for defending his team. You attacked him and he should be on the defense.

Please stop being so damn personal with your attacks...
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jamcam13
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Wed May 05, 2010 8:54 am

I agree that the commishes taking their time is the best option. However, I do disagree with the notion that this is not affecting current games. He's already had (at least) 1 week where he didn't have enough innings pitched, so he lost all categories. Now, there's not a lot of Major League talent out there that would have made a big difference, but perhaps he can go after K's or holds, or some category that could ultimately impact a playoff race somewhere.

That's really my issue with the extra Mi players on the Major League roster. Yes, the hoarding is an issue, but so, what? I think we'd want everyone to be able to get a little bit better, so owners want to stay in the league. But, when you start affecting outcomes of categories in particular weeks, that's a problem. Yes, his team may have no chance this season. But, I'd hope everyone within the confines of trying to always improve for the long run would try to win as many categories each week to maintain the current integrity of the league.

By having numerous players that cannot contribute to that end is an issue we should be concerned with.

Again, I agree I'd rather have an extra week go by and have a long term solution that we can all live with than rush into something.
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Wed May 05, 2010 9:43 am

I think the only fair punishment is accepting a Kawakami trade offer! Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Wed May 05, 2010 10:11 am

lmao!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Thu May 06, 2010 3:52 am

jamcam13 wrote:
I agree that the commishes taking their time is the best option. However, I do disagree with the notion that this is not affecting current games. He's already had (at least) 1 week where he didn't have enough innings pitched, so he lost all categories. Now, there's not a lot of Major League talent out there that would have made a big difference, but perhaps he can go after K's or holds, or some category that could ultimately impact a playoff race somewhere.

100% agree .. take the time needed on a ruling, but in the meantime i wish the commishes would take action now and make him change his roster TODAY ..he should only have MLB active players on his MLB roster.. every day it goes on, its unfairly skewing the standings and hurting teams that don't play him

ALSO - in my original reply i was saying callup/down at will.. i take that back, i was meaning for players actually in the majors.. i guess none of us realized the potential damage and that anyone would seriously want to abuse it the way TBC is.. but i think, if a player is actually IN the majors he should be allowed to go up/down at will of the team owner.. and if he's in the minors, he should be forced to Milb roster by league rule

and as annoying as Bryan Murphy might be.. the guy is competitive.. i respect that and would rather his antics over what TBC is doing to his team and the league.. in my oppinion, he's destroying the 20th team.. at least try to win a little while you rebuild.. give me 19 Bryan's over TBC any day
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Thu May 06, 2010 6:52 pm

So Jake, You are against hoarding minor league players on major league rosters but you are for anyone being able to hoard major league players on the minor league rosters?
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Fri May 07, 2010 6:33 am

aaronfoster13 wrote:
So Jake, You are against hoarding minor league players on major league rosters but you are for anyone being able to hoard major league players on the minor league rosters?

basically, yes.. because it can help teams win now.. we can use our prospects freely while in the majors.. if a mlb regular is day-to-day or in a big slump, we can send him down until he breaks out of it .. and if someone is dumb enough to put a star player (say Derek Jeter) to their minors for a long period of time, then it hurts them, they wouldn't get much out of it.. if they're doing that to be destructive or help certain opponents, then that owner should be called into question anyway..

it seems some owners value minor leaguers too highly, as if we had salaries and budgets like real MLB teams.. but if we were allowed to keep major leaguers on our farms, it could make them play a little differently and maybe be more competitive.. more of a "win now" attitude

and what Knuckleball is doing doesn't help him win at all.. i doubt this, but for all we know he could be favoring certain teams because they are kicking his ass right now

anyway, its just an idea.. maybe its crazy, but i hope his roster is fixed soon
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Fri May 07, 2010 6:33 pm

I disagree. That's looking at things through too narrow of a scope if you're ok with MLB players being on MILB rosters. It might help them win now, but if winning now isn't feasible, but shouldn't the inverse be true? It'd make more sense for a rebuilding team to carry extra prospects on their active roster rather than the inverse, and helps them build towards success in the future.

Knuckleball might not be doing it to help him win now, but he's definitely doing it to win for the future. It's just a now vs future type of thing. I don't see how allowing MLB players on the MILB roster makes sense but the inverse doesn't, it's just a matter of the state of the team.
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Sat May 08, 2010 3:48 am

Achtung Baby wrote:
I disagree. That's looking at things through too narrow of a scope if you're ok with MLB players being on MILB rosters. It might help them win now, but if winning now isn't feasible, but shouldn't the inverse be true? It'd make more sense for a rebuilding team to carry extra prospects on their active roster rather than the inverse, and helps them build towards success in the future.

Knuckleball might not be doing it to help him win now, but he's definitely doing it to win for the future. It's just a now vs future type of thing. I don't see how allowing MLB players on the MILB roster makes sense but the inverse doesn't, it's just a matter of the state of the team.

yea i understand.. but it seems alot of prospects eventually turn into crapola anyway.. i dont think it helps the future as much as your implying.. and if your spending $65 a year, might as well go for it a little.. you can still compete while keeping your best prospects
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Sat May 08, 2010 12:39 pm

they might turn into crapola, but that doesn't mean that they don't have trade value in the league regardless. All prospects are valuable and I think it makes more sense for somebody to have a guy with a high ceiling and low floor who may flame out, may be awesome, or may net him a player in some sort of package than say Angel Pagan.

I see what you're saying, but striving to be just below average isn't going to do too much and that's more like flushing your money away rather than taking a year or two to stockpile prospects.
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Sun May 09, 2010 3:56 am

thats fine, but my suggestion wouldn't stop prospect collecting at all. It would help the teams that want to win now.. is that a bad thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Sat May 15, 2010 9:53 am

May 15th & rules still not enforced. Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Sat May 15, 2010 12:17 pm

jake wrote:
thats fine, but my suggestion wouldn't stop prospect collecting at all. It would help the teams that want to win now.. is that a bad thing?

Yes because you're willing to expand the rosters for one, but not the other.
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Sat May 15, 2010 1:17 pm

Achtung Baby wrote:
jake wrote:
thats fine, but my suggestion wouldn't stop prospect collecting at all. It would help the teams that want to win now.. is that a bad thing?

Yes because you're willing to expand the rosters for one, but not the other.
i dont see it that way, not so black & white


HighLanderZ wrote:
May 15th & rules still not enforced.
yea whats going on here?
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PostSubject: Re: Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes   Mon May 17, 2010 6:46 pm

I think his roster is set now. Duffy is retired, so he doesn't really need to be in the minors IMO, and the rest of the crew are all players that have MLB service time.
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