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 late-season diving

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Should we do something about tanking teams?
Yes
75%
 75% [ 6 ]
No
25%
 25% [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 8
 

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PostSubject: late-season diving   Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:27 am

should we do something about teams tanking while facing teams in the hunt during weeks 20-22 or so..? (i.e. Cut-off man's dive vs OCMilf last week) ... the settings inadvertantly reward teams for giving up (tanking gets us higher draft picks next year), so its kinda stupid the way we have it... i dont think we should penalize a team for losing, but we should create an incentive to try to beat a playoff hopeful.. and the reward has to be good enough for managers to not mind getting a slighlty lower draft pick (i suggest giving them $15 to $20 extra bid cash for the following year, if they win that week)

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bryanmurphy9

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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:07 pm

I think the issue is playing injured players in starting spots. I don't know if Jake's option is the best, but I agree that something needs to done about guys blatantly taking with playing injured players in their starting lineup with perfectly healthy players on their bench. I'd almost like a scenario where if the situation arises, Stephen would contact that team and issue a warning. If teams does nothing about it then they are penalized by taking away $5 bid cash the next year.
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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:54 pm

bryanmurphy9 wrote:
I'd almost like a scenario where if the situation arises, Stephen would contact that team and issue a warning. If teams does nothing about it then they are penalized by taking away $5 bid cash the next year.

yea, but I dont like the idea of penalizing rebuilding teams. the poor shouldn't be getting poorer, should be the other way around!
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bryanmurphy9

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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:39 pm

jake wrote:
bryanmurphy9 wrote:
I'd almost like a scenario where if the situation arises, Stephen would contact that team and issue a warning. If teams does nothing about it then they are penalized by taking away $5 bid cash the next year.

yea, but I dont like the idea of penalizing rebuilding teams. the poor shouldn't be getting poorer, should be the other way around!

Don't intentionally tank then by playing injured players when you could be starting healthy ones. It's pretty simple...
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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:20 am

Or you can lose one spot on your pick for every week that you try to tank. So tank one week blatantly, No. 2 pick becomes No. 3. Defeats the whole purpose of tanking. And doesn't penalize the ones that didn't.
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aaronfoster13

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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:13 am

Just a thought but perhaps diverting money from category winners to weekly winners in the final weeks. Maybe each of the last 4 weeks there is 5 bucks up for grabs for the team with the best Winning Pct. ? Just a thought..
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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:28 am

The King Maker wrote:
Or you can lose one spot on your pick for every week that you try to tank. So tank one week blatantly, No. 2 pick becomes No. 3. Defeats the whole purpose of tanking. And doesn't penalize the ones that didn't.

pretty good idea.. maybe we do a double incentive.. this penalty if you tank, and a reward if you successfully bump someone out of playoffs (which is worth a reward, because its not easy to do) .. i really think we gotta give more incentives to rebuilding teams
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bryanmurphy9

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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:26 am

jake wrote:
The King Maker wrote:
Or you can lose one spot on your pick for every week that you try to tank. So tank one week blatantly, No. 2 pick becomes No. 3. Defeats the whole purpose of tanking. And doesn't penalize the ones that didn't.

pretty good idea.. maybe we do a double incentive.. this penalty if you tank, and a reward if you successfully bump someone out of playoffs (which is worth a reward, because its not easy to do) .. i really think we gotta give more incentives to rebuilding teams

What more incentive do they need than to win possibly $500+?? Somehow this proposal has gone from teams tanking to rewarding the bottom feeders... That's why everyone pays $65 and plays is to try to win it all. No one should need any extra "incentive". I kind of get tired of the "babying" some try to give the perennial losers in this league. The guys who are most active and make good decisions, year in and year out have better teams. You want to win money? Win your division or a category.. Pretty simple.
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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:31 am

bryanmurphy9 wrote:
jake wrote:
The King Maker wrote:
Or you can lose one spot on your pick for every week that you try to tank. So tank one week blatantly, No. 2 pick becomes No. 3. Defeats the whole purpose of tanking. And doesn't penalize the ones that didn't.

pretty good idea.. maybe we do a double incentive.. this penalty if you tank, and a reward if you successfully bump someone out of playoffs (which is worth a reward, because its not easy to do) .. i really think we gotta give more incentives to rebuilding teams

What more incentive do they need than to win possibly $500+?? Somehow this proposal has gone from teams tanking to rewarding the bottom feeders... That's why everyone pays $65 and plays is to try to win it all. No one should need any extra "incentive". I kind of get tired of the "babying" some try to give the perennial losers in this league. The guys who are most active and make good decisions, year in and year out have better teams. You want to win money? Win your division or a category.. Pretty simple.

BULLSHIT not all of us have the time to make 300 trades a year ..or the persuasiveness of LWB to rape trade partners .. top 5 teams will likely be the same every year .. seems to me your scared of anything that would challenge the top teams.. the MLB has Selig's joke of a revenue sharing system, and that barely tips the scales, we don't even have something like that. gimme a fuckin break murph
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bryanmurphy9

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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:54 pm

2008:

Underdogger (Now House Stark)
Big Stein (Now TBD)
SNNP
OC MILF
Louisiana
Cutoff

2009:
King's
Cutoff
SNNP
OC MILF
ImCraigShames
Big Stein (Now TBD)

2010:
LWB
OC MILF
SNNP
ImCraigShames
Cutoff
Louisiana

2011:
IE
Budweiser
ImCraigShames
OC MILF
Louisiana
LWB



Those are the 6 playoff teams in each year since our inaugural season in 2008. 11 different teams have made the playoffs in 4 years... Yes, ELEVEN. So your statement that "top 5 teams will likely be the same every year" doesn't exactly hold up. Sorry, I'm just not one for rewarding losing.. And my team was pretty bad in the first few years. Several teams have the look that mine once had, TBC, Caulk, TBD.. Are just a few teams that I think will turn the corner in the next few years. I'd also like to shoot down your "revenue sharing" statement. We all started with exactly the same playing field.. And continue to have the same playing field. OC MILF doesn't have more money to throw at big time free agents than the guy in last place. He just year in and year out makes better decisions. Because others have more time or are more persuasive than you or anyone else means nothing... I don't mind a challenge. I don't like dumbifying things for the guys that put no effort in at all... Have a plan, draft smart, made solid pickups, and your team will be competitive... Easy as that. But once again, we end the season and guys have MiLB bidding cash left over, or thy have an open spot or two on their MiLB roster... Don't try telling me those guys deserve a reward for winning a matchup. All they really deserve is a thank you for donating $65 to whoever wins th league!
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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:28 am

bryanmurphy9 wrote:

Those are the 6 playoff teams in each year since our inaugural season in 2008. 11 different teams have made the playoffs in 4 years... Yes, ELEVEN. So your statement that "top 5 teams will likely be the same every year" doesn't exactly hold up. Sorry, I'm just not one for rewarding losing.. And my team was pretty bad in the first few years. Several teams have the look that mine once had, TBC, Caulk, TBD.. Are just a few teams that I think will turn the corner in the next few years. I'd also like to shoot down your "revenue sharing" statement. We all started with exactly the same playing field.. And continue to have the same playing field. OC MILF doesn't have more money to throw at big time free agents than the guy in last place. He just year in and year out makes better decisions. Because others have more time or are more persuasive than you or anyone else means nothing... I don't mind a challenge. I don't like dumbifying things for the guys that put no effort in at all... Have a plan, draft smart, made solid pickups, and your team will be competitive... Easy as that. But once again, we end the season and guys have MiLB bidding cash left over, or thy have an open spot or two on their MiLB roster... Don't try telling me those guys deserve a reward for winning a matchup. All they really deserve is a thank you for donating $65 to whoever wins th league!

4 teams are back from last year, your were squeezed out, so that could've/should've been 5... its not about giving a reward per say, but making a chance for some turnover.. you clearly dont like the challenge, so you'll argue this forever....

and your list proves theres not alot of turnover. it shows 13 of the current teams have never been in the playoffs in the leagues history... that leaves 5 making it repeatedly .. the other 2 teams (you and Bud) are first timers this year, but neither of you were ever bottom dwellers for a long period of time, maybe a year tops.... so the true bottom dwellers arent making it anytime soon... wether its because of poor management, bad luck, inactivity, WHATEVER - there needs to be a boost to the bottom, or we'll just see similair finishes every year.. and to be honest, my suggestion is barely anything because its something unlikely to happen often.. it was just a small idea to get the ball rolling.. and your fighting it tooth and nail?? lol REALLY?? its a good thing i dont say my real ideas, you might have an aneurism

and HOW THE HELL is it possible that current playoff teams will have top picks in our draft next year? when do you see the yankees redsox or phillies with top 5 draft picks??!!! INSANITY!
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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:01 pm

I am sorry Bryan I have to agree something should be done about it. I am one of the lower teams yes but I didn't give up trying at least till the end. Should I have given up around week 15 or so yes. Did I screw myself for trying yes. Cause other people tanked and I tried to play it out till the end I know I went down in the draft order.

One of the main reasons that Louisiana Lightning is in the playoffs is cause of me. In week 20 I beat Diamond Cutters 10-1-1 to knock them almost out of first. At this point I should have been like others and tanking which would have not allowed Louisiana Lightning to make the playoffs this year. I am not saying there should be a incentive or not to tanking but something should be done about it. I think the proposed is not a terrible idea.
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Knuckleball
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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:44 pm

Time for one of the commissioners to chime in, so here is my perspective as there are really two issues.

First, should teams be punished for intentionally tanking? I believe this is something we need to look into to curb this practice.

Second, should bottom dwelling teams be rewarded for being bad? That I do not think should be the case. This is why we have the milb draft each year.

So, how do we find a middle ground, because obviously the bottom teams would like to see more turnover but all the top teams want to make sure they stay at the top because that is where the money pays.

Here are a couple of suggestions,

The Punishment: starting in week 18 bottom teams who are no longer setting their lineups with healthy and active players (if available) will lose one spot in the draft for all picks. (potential to drop 5 spots).

Ensuring the weak get better: Protect top 5 picks that are traded. Therefore, if a bottom dwelling teams decides it wants to trade a 1st rounder early in the season for a high end player but misses the boat, they won't lose that pick until the next year when it is likely they will not have another top 5 pick which should protect against the playoff teams getting rich year after year. Do I think this should be a mandate, no, but it is a tactic I have employed in a couple of trades now.

The Carrot: Still thinking of something that could work and be fair.
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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:43 pm

I can't pull up the anti-tanking rules are for the other league I am in w/ Gonzo, Al & Sean from here but that seems to work.
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jamcam13
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PostSubject: Re: late-season diving   Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:10 am

We should not divert money from category winners (why punish those folks?)

We should not decide who is tanking and who is not (if I have no bench players, but I don't want to drop my injured players, do I have to pick someone up? Who's making that decision?)

Easy solution - It's the Patrick Ewing rule - Lottery. You can even unweight it so there's absolutely no reason to tank. You could do a similar thing where last place gets on worse than 4th pick or something.

I just hate someone judging someone's intent. Now, there are obvious cases. But, the slippery slope is not for those. Where is the line? I don't want someone deciding that.

I do think if folks have active players on their benches, the commishes should be allowed to insert them into the line-up over injured players. But, that's about as far as I'd like to go.

All that being said - I 100% agree something should be done.
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